Pasithea

Man, I hate that bullshit. Humanity's attempt to understand and touch the divine is a big, epic, important thing. It is not supposed to get you more business as a plumber, it's not there to sell more paintings, it's not supposed to help you meet girls. It's bumper-sticker-theology at it's worst.

I very much like the idea of spirituality and religion being a personal and private thing. I've seen this sort of Praise-to-God stuff and it seems so pushy and impersonal. But then pushy, impersonal, and nepotistic seem to be the defining characteristics of Christianity in America.

There's gotta be some word for the whole dynamic where left-leaning people basically screw themselves over by being true to their values, whereas right-leaning people have no such compunctions.

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kinkyturtle.livejournal.com

Plus, just because someone's devout doesn't mean he's a better plumber, or a better artist. It's not only a perversion of spirituality or whatever, it's also a dumb way to choose your plumber.

I don't know if there's a word for it, but I've usually heard it expressed as a four-word phrase: "Nice guys finish last."

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centauress.livejournal.com

Of course, Christian fanatics often say that putting such in their films hurts then in the liberal school system.

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I've noticed that's emblematic of a larger trend in conservative argument. You present something - tangential and irrelevent truth, half-truth, or blatant lie alike - as a fact. Then you sound so rational when you defend it.

So in this case, the truth part is that people are trying to create a system without bias. So then you blankly present this total lie that therefore they're being horribly discriminated against.

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Of course, because if you're not thinking the RIGHT way (i.e. conservative agenda) then you must be thinking the WRONG way and therefore discriminting against the RIGHT way.

Or to put it another way, they know they are liars and distorting the truth. And the first rule of any criminal is that they think everyone else is capable of committing the same crime they engage in. Liars think everyone else are liars, just worse at it. Murderers are positive everyone would kill if just given the opportunity. So it is almot inconcievable to the intolerant at the basic level that tolerance exists. Must be those commie bastards hiding their agenda, just like us!

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Or as summarized in a writing blog I was listening to yesterday:

Every good villain believes they are fair and just.

Xavier tends to see Magneto as a bad guy, and vice versa. When I was a child, of COURSE Xavier was the good guy. Lately though ... I sympathize a lot more with Magneto.

(I feel like a total dork for having said that. *^_^* )

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Hehe, don't feel bad, we say the same thing around here ;) And to get philosophical a minute, remember the message "the guy who turns the other cheek is the RIGHT one (aka Xavier)" is one of those that folks with the power to hit you enjoys :P

And yup, even Hitler thought he was doing what he did for the good of his people and by the will of God. Which is one of the reasons you should distrust anyone bringing divine inspiration into their arguments for genocide.

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Psst. You're supposed to see Magneto's point of view, even though Xavier is supposed to be the good guy.

What's supposed to make the world of the X-Men so damn grim as that they're fighting for the right ideals, and it's a pretty thankless task. What makes the X-Men heros is that they're on the losing side just because [they're] inclined to play fair and because [they're] a minority, and yet they don't automatically side with Magneto, who has an incredibly valid concern (heck, the X-Men even include Bishop, who really is from a future where humans dumped mutants in camps).

Or at least that's the theory, anyway.

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I mean that when I was younger, I would have seen Magneto as mildly sympathetic but absolutely definitely the bad guy.

Nowdays, I totally understand his point of view and think the 'make everyone a mutant' idea was awesome and that 'wipe out all normals' also has a great deal of appeal.

Whereas Xavier does this whole parent thing trying to get you to hide being different and just try to fit in and behave like you're everyone else. Screw that. I like being a freak and if anyone gives me grief about it, I'm not going to shuffle off and let them shoot me in the back. If Xavier was on the internet, he'd be one of those rich libertarian furry sorts that gibbers about all his money and how successful he is and that if the libs would just stop whining and play the game, they'd all be doing as good as him.

The characters haven't changed but my POV has shifted almost 180 degrees. I see Xavier as much more of a jerk in his way than Magneto.

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Hey did you see the crowd that Mags was hanging out with in the third movie? Rawr! Now that's some tasty rebellion ;)

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NOFX put it best in the song "Now We're the One Hundred Times Fucked-er". Not a musical masterpiece, the singing's off a bit (it's punk, what do you expect heh), but the message is exactly that we are idiots for playing by civilized rules when they don't. Personally I came to grips with the fact, a long time ago, that life is a social contract between people. 'I don't eat you, you don't eat me' is the foundation of that.

"We get what we fucking deserve
Bringing raised fists to a knife fight
You'd think developed minds would learn
Not to give benefit of doubt
You wouldn't trust a hungry animal
Around your newborn would you?"

In the end the best way for me to keep my head on straight has been to almost overwhelm folks with being a civil person when I meet them, then treat them the same way they treat me, only amplified. Love me, and I'm loyal to you to the end of time. Hate me, fine, I'll leave quietly since I might be the asshole at fault. But attack me, and I'll show you precisely what 'savage' really means. People act like people, you treat them better than you dream of being treated yourselves. But if they act like a rabid animal, put them down for the sake of everyone.

But to be honest that doesn't work right now, right here. Back where I was raised no male dared to take a complaint like that to the cops except when they were maimed. Here you'll lose everything if you dare respond to their hatred, since the assholes that spew spittle-laced epitaphs are oftentimes the first that will not accept the consequences of their actions and run to the nearest cop station. Can't tell you how much I chew on my own head trying to hold it in, knowing that one single slip-up means I go away.

I just want a spot in the world where people leave each other alone, or work together without hatred of differences. Pipe dream I know.

Anyway, back to the point, mark them down, give them a fail. Why? Well, to be frank, they chose to put that crap in there. Choices have consequences, something our society desperately tries to avoid at all costs. You gamble by making choices; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

As for your responses to the intolerant: it is no crime to defend yourself when someone attacks you. That is the literal basis of all life itself. Survival instinct. If you defend yourself against attack that doesn't make you bad or intolerant or any of the other hated phrases and labels they spew. 'Turn the other cheek' is a lie created and passed down by those who would strike you again and again. By their very nature, i.e. bullying, the intolerant prey upon those they perceive weaker than themselves. Because they're cowards. They're too secure in the knowledge their victims won't strike back. Take away that security blanket.

To sum up, no, you're not a bad person for marking them down for their "bumper-sticker" religion (as Paka so eloquently put). They're not after spirituality, they're not after the Answer, they're just sniveling cowards trying to eke out an advantage in an underhanded way, demeaning the very concept they claim to support.

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There's that old addage though... "Don't attribute to malevolence what can adequately be explained by stupidity."

These people are kids. It's possible that an adult made them put that in. It's possible that they're brainwashed and just don't know any better. Is each and every member of that animation group being a pushy aggressive twit or was it someone else? I can't act against them in good conscience because I don't know them.

Unrelated. Paka is the friend I was saying I thought you guys would really get along with. So. Paka, Void. Void, Paka.

Paka likes D&D, superheros and D&D. :) He's also really well educated and knows practically everything about culture and rituals and such and he will eat nearly anything (except silkworm pupae)

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Allow me to counter with my own adage: "leave the stupid to their fate." ;)

The people who made the film are kids so ... what, 11, 12? If they're not that young they'll get no sympathy from me. Time to cut those apron strings. State says they're adults at 18, and each one claims to be adult from teen onward. So let 'em put up or shut up :) Let me give you an example: myself. I was raised in a family with KKK members, where gays and anyone even slightly different were reviled daily. Even my own mother, the rebel of her generation, vehemently opposes same-sex relationships and doesn't believe you should marry outside your own race. Yet at age 6 I knew they were all completely and undeniably so full of shit that it stank to the state limits. Deep south, pentacostal family, lived in the ghetto, etc. And yet I do not believe any of that crap they spouted. So the excuse "that's just how they were raised" simply doesn't fly with me. Given where you came from and who you are, you shouldn't let it fly with you either ;) You and I are living proof we are what we choose to be, not what others put into us. Or brainwashing etc. I don't consider myself exceptional; anyone can come from any background and be anyone they choose to be. Adults are responsible for their actions, whether they want to be or not.

And if a pushy aggressive twit domineered the others into having his way, I still say fail them. Perhaps it will finally be the impetus to make someone in the group stand up to the bully and say "this is bullshit." That turning point in someone's life is far more important than any film or grade or activity could ever be. The point where someone finally says "enough of this horseshit, this is MY life and I'll live or die by my choices" is the point where they become human. Otherwise they're just a monkey that knows how to drive a car.

And heyas Paka :) We've been looking for some RP action for a few YEARS. No kidding ;)

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Hey, Void! And I don't know much at all about culture and rituals, though the "eat nearly everything" part is true.

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Yet at age 6 I knew they were all completely and undeniably so full of shit that it stank to the state limits.

I do understand. I had a similar family and neighbors experience and also knew it was wrong in some ways. The racism and sexism, definitely. Religion, I was very suspect of but still quasi-religious. Hard not to be with the brainwashing and fear tactics. On the other hand, I said a lot of homophobic things when I was a child simply because they were what everyone else said and I didn't know any gay people. I was also painfully ignorant of world politics until I was in my very late teens and my definitions of liberal and conservative came straight out of Family Ties (dies of embarrassment)

With zero tolerance policies these days, kids really just _can't_ think for themselves. It's not allowed. How much stuff did you do in school that would get you thrown in prison if you were the same age now? Perhaps I don't give teens enough credit, but honestly, I give them until about 25. Get to college, get away from the tight control of mommy and daddy, meet some other people. I know what it was like to be afraid of being cut off, never finishing school and being homeless. My parents routinely used that weapon.

I dunno. I just still believe that people can learn from their mistakes.

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