A program on Atheism

[pasithea]

I have a suspicion it will be a 'cold day in Hell' before you see this series on the Discovery channel or something, even though they run programs about the bible all the time.

Watch em on youtube before they get taken down due to protest from religious people. (My bet is 3 days tops before YouTube pulls it)

the root of all evil?
the root of all evil?
the root of all evil?
the root of all evil?
the root of all evil?
the root of all evil?
the root of all evil?
the root of all evil?

Ganked from singedrac

Be sure to click all of the 'related' links. and watch all of each show, not just the first segment.

Comments

Devils advocate

[sci.livejournal.com]

2.1
I like it where the scientist says "I'm not a fundementalist beleiver" when the Rabbi and he are arguing over evolution. The scientist keeps stating it as fact, just as the rabbi states creationism as fact. In fact he actually says he wouldn't call it the Theory of Evolution, but the Fact. At this point he seems to have lost his point. Science is all theory. It's flexible and changes based on observation. That's the key difference between faith and science.
I may be proven wrong as I watch the rest, but at this point it seems the presenter just slipped from science to a faith of his own. Somehow I suspect he wouldn't have any trouble teaching his own children the Theory of Evolution as a fact.

Watching on...

Re: Devils advocate

[dv-girl.livejournal.com]

That seems to be looking for something to nit-pick on, honestly. I mean one might say that it's 'theory' that red blood cells carry oxygen, or that the Earth revolves around the sun.

You could nitpick both. That's not the only function of red blood cells and though the earth is only a fraction of the mass of the sun, you could say the Earth and sun revolve around one another.

But for 99% of all cases, there is enough evidence that both are more reliable than rounding PI to 3.14159

Clearly, evolution cannot be proved for people who don't wish to believe it or who were obviously skipped by it, but there is such a long chain of evidence at this point, it's rather dishonest to pick at an error in wording. Particularly when using it to try to ignore a huge body of evidence in favor of something that has NO EVIDENCE AT ALL.

Yes, I'll put my faith in the research of thousands of scientists and an extensive fossil record without blinking just as surely as I will trust medicine and surgery over the sacrifice of a small mammal and yowling of a faith healer.

Please, go right ahead and say it's exactly the same as religious faith if you like but I think we both know it's exceedingly intellectually dishonest.

Re: Devils advocate

[sci.livejournal.com]

You're ahead of me there. Yes, both sun and earth revolve around a mutual barycenter. :)

I was going to use this to point out that a theory is just that, and the whole point of science is supposed to be that it's flexible. Allways changing and not as the pressenter was presenting it, another inflexible truth. It seemed rather hypocritical that he was extremely against inflexible religious doctrine, but very enthusiastic about inflexible scientific doctrine.

I'm not saying that science is the same as religion. I'm saying that some people treat it as such which is what he was doing at that point and did at many other points in the show.

The whole thing did seem to be going over old ground. A good watch with some extra bits of information indeed, but it still had that feeling of regurgitating same-old same-old. He was hardly un-biased in his veiws and certainly not in his manner of speech. Again, not particularly scientific to my eye.

Yes, most religions have fanciful events described in their history.
Yes, most religions have a lot of contradictory ideas and examples in their doctrine.
Yes, most religions have ideals that are at odds in one way or another with fundemental items in societal law.
And yes it is a bad thing to indoctrinate children with these ideals that will not work in the world they must live in, or to isolate children from others, keeping them to grow up away from people with other ideas and ideals.
Give me two sides of A4 and a pen and I can prove that such isolation leads to fear, misunderstanding and inevitable hostility. Lack of communication leads to war.

I couldn't give two trumbones about wether they say we were created from dust or that the sun goes around the earth. How many people use that in their day to day lives? Sure, I'd put money on what group'll have a space program sooner, but I'd be more concerned about the basic moral attitudes being taught than the intricacys of their creation myths. Afterall, they're going to learn something, and it's pretty inevitable that in some way whatever they learn, it'll be wrong. And they'll later be taught whatever is currently accepted if they go into a technical industry anyway.

So in short. Secularism = bad. Creation myths = largely irrelivent.

Noone ever died from being told Santa Claus exists. We all learn eventually. :P

Re: Devils advocate

[shizouka.livejournal.com]

This is where I think you're wrong, one more than one point. The points that the atheist scientist believes as 'fact' are generally regarded as having enough proof and evidence to be called fact.

The point where he differs from religion is that his beliefs are based in imperical evidence that he himself can verify, and if say... some radical new theory comes along to show him he's wrong (as per the video), he will GLADLY accept the new theory if he is shown sound proof.

Religion will not. In the face of contradictory evidence, it refuses to budge or adapt.

This sounds like the argument I hear from religious people wielding the tools of logic like their father's loaded gun. The great power of logic brandished unwisely and in a way that gets people hurt.

As for belief in santa claus killing people? I believe the segment on where Islam and Judiasim best illustrates that.

Two religions, where they both believe some myth portion of their past collides with each other and people die every day because of it. Normally these things won't cause trouble, but when they overlap onto other's core beliefs, things get messy. To you or I, in the western world, killing people off because of a belief overlapping is outlandish. but in the middle east, its bloody murder because two groups claim the same land as holy and their own.

[the-vampkitty.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with sci. While the scientist has a point, he too is taking the literal opposite position, of what he is reporting on, one of unmovable state. Extreme to Extreme.

Interesting series... I've seen parts of it before.

Thank you..

[plucky.livejournal.com]

It was wonderful. I actually read Blind Watchmaker a long time ago in one of my anthro classes. Religion is a virus. Again, thank you.

[perlandria.livejournal.com]

Thank you.
And the nit pickers can suck me. The connotations and associations of the word Fact as used by a scientist include a basic idea that this has been questioned, should be questioned, and has to this point proved itself under question. Fundementalist religious people don't allow questioning. It is all faith. A truly religious person can't use the word fact and have it mean anything authentic.

[paka.livejournal.com]

I really find this stuff objectionable, but hey. I really don't want to fight about what's basically semantics rather than base argument, least of all with you.

[dv-girl.livejournal.com]

More important than any of this, did you watch the adventures of the amazing Screw-on head in my other post?

[paka.livejournal.com]

I've tried (and Tessa, and I think Rafferty had the link too) but don't think I have the right program to view the Screw On Head preview. Guess I'll just have to see it when it comes out right?

Somewhere around here I have the actual comic book.

[apoidea.livejournal.com]

I agree with him but this will be either "preaching to the choir" or people who disagree will get defensive so I'm not sure what the purpose of this is(his making the show, not you posting this)

[shizouka.livejournal.com]

While it sound like wasted effort, the more important thing is that it helps to hold ground. People's ideas change and their opinons as well.

Like the red queen, we have to run very fast just to stay still. What happens to the next generation if they don't get more of these types of shows rather than the mind numbing "don't think" specials which preach 'truth' over and over?

I think a lot of this type of show and the ones preaching religion over science are meant to target the fuzzy middle ground. Thats where 'converts' come from.